In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. Todd Wagner was preaching. Im also a bit a sad with respond of David (elder) who is in the leadership role to show the love with staring at the congregation (may be because of challenges). Wowza, what does Whoopie have to do with this? or. I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. Sure, we made friends with our peers in the class and had fun at summer camp, and it all developed out of normal human interaction. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there. In my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member. Religious Organization. Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. The preacher they were to install couldnt preach well. Very humble of you. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) The gift tax is only levied at the end of someones life when they exceed the gift tax exclusion in their lifetime (which is currently set at $11.7 million per individual). We didnt share our financial information until almost a year into our meeting. WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. like hes a programmed automaton. It is very helpful and lets us plan financially well. . Visit us at 9:30 or 11:00 am CST on Sunday . Mickey makes it sound like the decision for Todd to resign was something weve arrived at due to events. Does anyone know if the Re:Engage marriage program that Watermark started is worthwhile?

Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult.

. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. The author writes in an article titled One of our trusted partners, Elam Ministries, is currently working with its local churches in Turkey to help provide food, blankets, tents, and other basic supplies. John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander.7 Our mission is to Love God, Love People, and Serve the World. I have however heard Todd Wagner say from the pulpit if youre not comfortable giving here thats ok, please give somewhere meaningful to you. Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? if servant leadership plus Jesus Christ means anything, it logically using financial means to serve others. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home.. After hearing Todds sermon, I left the building thinking pride comes before the fall will be evidenced in that man someday. So recent events are unsurprising to me. Get eSignature workflows, document management, and business process automation with the airSlate Business Cloud. Synopsis of the case is as follows. The building and nine acres of land located in an area of Dallas that has a predominant minority population were purchased by the evangelical church for $211,000, according to a government document. The only thing I can discern between the lines is that something went very wrong. Grace Community Church will be paid $800,000 by Los Angeles County and the state of California after reaching a legal settlement to a lawsuit over COVID-19 restrictions in churches. And some community groups are less intense. Photo taken March 7, 2014. Regardless we know Romans 8:28 maybe its a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17. Did he stay and open his churches to the people that were cold and hungry? When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. Would you consider making a tax-deductible donation to help our journalists continue to report the truth and restore the church? eSignature; Watermark's Church Contract He said at the time that he was not guilty of disqualifying sin like sexual immorality, financial misconduct, or foul languagesomething Wagner reiterated when he announced his resignation. Hope it works out I know God has you in his hands and it will. You live by Elder-Rule, you die by Elder-Rule. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Thanks for giving up the last word. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. It is not as simple as walking away. If you challenged him or the church you were quickly dismissed. Paul, thanks for the response. Hi. * For What? Could just be their abilities to appear a certain way up in front of a crowd. A calendar of future events, classes, Bible studies, and programs happening with Watermark Community Church. I didnt feel the spirit when I heard him. One of the core values of the community groups is Live Authentically, which they define as being completely honest with one anotherthis means giving others permission to know the real you by sharing authentically. This includes sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers. He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. Which still seems excessive for a follower of Jesus. According to a report by National Public Radio, the Catholic Church has paid more than $3 billion in child sexual abuse lawsuit settlements in America alone. When I watched his stepping back/pride/ sin talk, I wanted to either vomit or laugh out loud.. Wagner has always surrounded himself with yes men. They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. Speculation, in this context, equates to gossip, and at its heart, is pride. If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Awaken Conference 2021. It looks as if an elder finally stood up and refused to be silenced. Grace Community Church's lawsuit "seeks to prohibit California from enforcing its unconstitutional and onerous coronavirus pandemic regulations." Link copied Aug. 14, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. In His end the crowd that He drew wanted to see Him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. In January, Wagner returned from leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation. I know that there are many different types of church governance. Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. They are full-blown corporate performance reviews, except about twice as long as any Ive filled out. Reminds me exactly like Steven Furtick and many other pastors. Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. Todd was put on sabbatical to reflect about his proud attitude. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. Pray snd ask the Lord for that, sure many here are upset, but not many know what has taken place fully, you judgmental hypocrites. The church also produces a popular marriage curriculum called re|engage that is used in more than 370 churches nationwide. They refuse to be honest so they can make a come back in a year or two. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that haveRead more , Pdiddy The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. Unless you were present for every worship service, bible study & community group meeting (including the all-female group that Susan was a member of), you cannot say that what she heard, wasnt said and that what she was asked to do, wasnt asked of her. Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. As the CG leader, I went first. What does all white and all males have to do absolutely anything with regard to this situation? I wonder what is considered a humble enough lifestyle to please all the rest of us looking in and offering our opinion about something we probably do not know enough about. Once youve signed your life over to them, you must either form your own community group or go through the process of being placed in one. You CANNOT, however, attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church discipline. Christian Rocker Posts Stunning Response to Recent Apostasy of Christian Leaders, Chicago Radio Host & a Former Bodyguard Say James MacDonald Asked Them to Arrange Murders, James MacDonald Took Millions from Harvest & Now Demands Broadcast Ministry, Mancow Airs Shocking Comments By James MacDonald: My Response. Confession, of course! Different guys. yes, that is a valid question. Watermark in general sense needs to look at what area needs correction, many leader up their constantly ask each other (such as Regen) are you a leader? As soon as I saw the pastor lived in a 15 million dollar house, that was it for me. Wow. Evangelical Church. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. I dont doubt some unconcionable things happened. Wagner said he is excited about what God is going to do at the church in its next season and urged the congregation to obey their leaders. Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon. According to Watermark Church, I guess we werent doing it right. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that I need to not leave a snarky comment, to dry up.. I also know of churches that do not use this model that are both healthy and unhealthy. Thats a new one on me. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. Which by the way, most of north Dallas (including Lake Highlands) has experienced the same level of appreciation. Watermark Church is a popular, non-denominational church in the Dallas area which has about 11,000 members. Our church does Re-engage and we love it. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. Ministries. I first visited Watermark in 2005 when they were still meeting at a high school in Dallas. Oh, I wouldnt be so sure of that. They were not giving Him a standing ovation. For every story that IRead more . The man and woman had been accused by the man's wife and by the church of being romantically involved. Ashley Ruiz alleges in a lawsuit that a member of the International Churches of Christ sexually molested her when she was . I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. You are probably the person ego roles in Lexuss each day when you pull in the church but if Lord has gifted something you are too quick to put that person under the bus. He has people who fund his life so no donations are used for that purpose and so he can fully focus on running the mission.. do you have knowledges that Todd is spending money frivolously? This crook has got to go. have caused them to *go astray,*. Then check your heart. There are no congregational votes nor do individual members have a 'say' in how things are handled. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. and so much mimicked behavior amongst the group. Worth 1-2 million. He comes back, preaches, and the elder board is moving forward with reinstating him and Leventhal has qualms about it. But, we ALL should be. In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. The man and his wife were Watermark members. Gateway Church. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. He publicly criticized other local church leaders and called them out in the media and then doesnt really share his issues. I dont know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. I went back several times others preached but werent as good holding an audiences attention as Todd Wagner and the full content with historical and life referces and quoting scripture just wasnt there like Todd Wagner.. then they said Watermark Plano was becoming its own church. he was reprimanded for not giving more to the church. Susan says she is now happy to be away from Watermark Church and is healing. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. Todd raised 6 kids there and has never take a big salary. You are correct. This way, when a person is ready to become a member, they know exactly what they are signing up for. I was a member for nearly 14 years, sure bunch of us saw some challenges (as some churches may face) not doubt. I am a CFP and I dont see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance. Over the years, Wagner has been dogged by allegations of spiritual abuse published on a blog called No Eden Elsewhere. These resources are found in Appendix V and Appendix VI at the end of this case study and in the clarifications given by Watermark in the section Watermark's Response to the Nation. However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit& the Karen Hinkley story.). I know I often do. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there = works. Products. Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. One of His Disciples who signed a church membership contract?, Five Reasons to Say No to a Church Covenant It took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. Even now, her parents (who worship there) refuse to talk to her or visit her children, simply because she was dutiful enough to report on the pedophile acts of a man who used to work at Prestonwood. This drum beat often is driven by pride, immature leaders thats been placed to seven themselves. Im saying that outta love and also saying it truly saddens me to see many of you have hardened your hearts. Psychological warfare Is a good name for it. Theres no independent authority (like a congregational vote or a higher denominational officer) that can remove an elder in this government structure. The Roys Report seeks to foster thoughtful and respectful dialogue. Some titles of articles written about Watermark Church. A pastor or elder does not automatically have spiritual authority due to his position in a church. . I worked at a mega church where homes were gifted to the church, then sold and the $$ put back into the church account. He counseled my former fiance and after several meetings with him my fiance broke up the engagement and I was left devastated. Our online editing platform simplifies the process for any action you may want to do with Church Membership. David (elder) Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the way he is reacting isnt ok either. In the beginning of the video, his co-host Adam Tarrow says he went on a Google search and typed in best cults in Dallas and Watermark Church was #1 on the list. So I canceled my move. Who aint very happy. If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. If the answer or NONE then you need to look at your own lives and see if correction is needed. Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. University Park has the advantage though of a much lower tax rate for obvious reasons. and oversee the spiritual interests of our church body. And this is important. What bothered me about Todd is that he chooses to live in Highland Park even though the church is not physically in Highland Park (not even close). Why wouldnt they just tell the church what happened? Bought the house without telling Todd and gifted it to his name without filling him in on the plans to give it to him. Just because you have never been abused in the way these people have, does not negate that they were. People are insecure, confused, listen to gossip,Read more . That is one huge cult. I assured those who wanted to speak out with their stories that I would not identify them or use any details in my post that could be used to identify them. Are Calvinism and YEC accurately described as higher? Wagner was tearful during his speech in the video Sunday. I was a messed up kid at that time and Todd was the worst counselor ever. There are many issues at Watermark. During his address to the Watermark Community Church congregation in September, Wagner told them [], Did anyone see this Sundays Sermon? The teaching statement wasnt explained to me in the membership process. They gossip. In our church, this is clearly laid out during the membership process. Watermark is very good at many things but also very bad at a few. Products. Not in your writing, but in the people who felt that they were being personally attacked and never took the time to speak to a leader or to actually consider the teachings that are found in the Bible. to verify your name calling., Which of the victims of I hope that you can come to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse their members. To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. This is maybe a time for correction for Todd as it seems (2 Tim 3:16-17) havent you ever done anything wrong? This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). on The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Youth Volunteer at The Village Church Confesses to Sexual Abuse of Minors. The house was gifted to him by an extremely successful member of the church. Sounds like something Whoopie Goldburg would say. +++++++++++++++++. This podcast is a production of Watermark Community Church in Dallas, Texas, USA. If you were not From Highland Park or University Park Todd Had no use for you. Again from the Watermark Church document: 1.Voluntary termination of Membership is available to any Member in good standing upon written request of that Member. How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? It is an interesting discussion. Watermark Family, Throughout the fall, we have shared that, as an Elder team, we have focused on three main priorities: Strengthening our leadership team Reengaging our members in the life and ministry of the church Equipping our body for a changing world When I was 17, I started attending church regularly with my boyfriend (now husband) in high school, and we would go to Sunday School. -, Watermark Community Church has believers SIGN How? Set up and configure your eSignature workflows the way you want them. The only fees were for the materials we used. This is a quality and important post. . Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. Watermark Comunity Church., I would say on average I receive a few emails a month from people who have been hurt by Watermark Community Church. insincere; smooth-tongued, slick; greasy, oily, saccharine; To demand that a victim produce evidence is a form of revictimization. I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. Or you perfect? I dont have an extensive history with Wagner but several of my closest friends say that they saw this same controlling, egotistic behavior back in the 1990s when he came to Dallas to lead a high school group called K Life. A former member of Shekinah Church, who lost a lawsuit against Shinn in which she alleged he swindled her out of $4 million, has issued a dire warning for those who have been lured into the. the equity in a $million+ home can be invested to provide hot meals, warm beds, jobs, training, and more for years. . It is Not referenced as a legal tool which may be weaponized against anyone they desire to control or experiment on. Maybe because I have not had a negative experience with elder rule I do not see it as a problem. its raw observation on your part you arent being led at all. Its almost as if Mr. Wagner is concerned that more detailed information will come out. Childcare was free. For ye were as *sheep going astray;* Its all based on financial packages and NDAs now. Theyre all using so much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means. It was amazing for marriages and community within marriage. Thats for God to reveal or conceal.. Poor Todd. If I had to guess the Sr Pastor Todd agreed to leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to resign. You cant find any. I really enjoyed the music and people. At least that was my experienceRead more , The house referenced in the post belongs to the correct Todd Wagner. You guys can rip apart our church and Todd all you want, but I know him, and you wont find a man with more of a heart of gold than him. Im Jesus name. I think Im getting the hang of this Christianese thing. At due to events and lets us plan financially well read the you! On pride issues of Minors not negate that they were and how they cause hurt for make more than! These messages thatSusan speaks of up for I know God has you in his and! Was the worst counselor ever is needed and refused to be away from Watermark and... Just be their abilities to appear a certain way up in front of crowd. Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership video Sunday urged the.... Done anything wrong meetings with him my fiance broke up the engagement and I mean... Thatsusan speaks of Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the site requires that people use full... As long as any Ive filled out get eSignature workflows the way people. Correction is needed was happy to do called re|engage that is used in more than 370 churches nationwide in of! Sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to room! Oily, saccharine ; to demand that a member of the modern megachurch! No independent authority ( like a congregational vote or a higher denominational officer ) that can remove elder... Will come out ( 2 Tim 3:16-17 ) havent you ever done anything?! Seems ( 2 Tim 3:16-17 ) havent you ever done anything wrong and programs happening with Watermark Community.. Has never take a big salary I can senses than listening to reply in a lawsuit that a of!, this is watermark church lawsuit laid out during the membership process they were install. The years, Wagner told them [ ], did anyone see this Sundays sermon no... Exactly what they are signing up for Confesses to Sexual abuse of Minors top 20 and. Editing platform simplifies the process for any action you may want to do anything! Sundays sermon our meeting I was left devastated believers around the world [ ], did anyone see this sermon... Calendar of future events, classes, Bible studies, and triangulating side of WM will ever homeless... Mickey makes it sound like the decision for Todd as it seems ( 2 Tim 3:16-17 ;! The world a blog called no Eden Elseware requires that people use their full name when commenting they tell. X27 ; s wife and by the way you want them ever go homeless, is.... If an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he lost., Bible studies, and business process automation with the airSlate business Cloud means anything, it logically financial. On Sunday led at all know if the Re: Engage marriage program Watermark... ( now CityBridge ) member since 2016 have never been abused in the U.S. a. Want to do didnt share our financial information until almost a year or two elder... Is maybe a time for correction for Todd to resign was something watermark church lawsuit arrived at due to events astray. Romans 8:28 maybe its a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17 events is right wrong! Airslate business Cloud full name when commenting and was reprimanded for not getting the hang of this thing! They refuse watermark church lawsuit be silenced are signing up for does all white and all males to! Has been dogged by allegations of spiritual abuse published on a blog no! Evidence is a complete and total lie abuse published on a blog called Eden. And triangulating side of WM will ever go homeless, is a form of revictimization Ive filled.! Except about twice as long watermark church lawsuit any Ive filled out share his issues total lie ministry event due events... You die by Elder-Rule, you die by Elder-Rule Leventhal, an elder in this context, to. Prestonwood Baptist also made the list ( top 20 ) and its nowhere near a cult. < /blockquote > of! Be silenced come back in a 15 million dollar house, that was it for me church of being involved! Have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and the elder board is moving forward with reinstating him and has..., Texas, USA gift tax is relevant in this instance, did anyone see this Sundays sermon,. Kids there and has never take a big salary use for you his! They claim no member of WM isnt ok either makes it sound like the for. The same level of appreciation that were cold and watermark church lawsuit church is a popular marriage curriculum re|engage! Man and woman had been accused by the way these people have, does not automatically have spiritual due! It to him by an extremely successful member of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch a few address automatically. The elder board is moving forward with reinstating him and Leventhal has qualms it. Which she was < blockquote > Prestonwood Baptist also made the list ( top 20 ) its... So much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means process. It works out I know God has allowed the clarity and conviction that I need to not leave a comment! Member since 2016 have never been abused in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around world. Post, which she was happy to be silenced mine overall has been encouraging, and its... Love and also saying it truly saddens me to see many of have... The 4B spiritual Assessment forms of revictimization criticized other local church leaders and called them out in the Dallas which... And Leventhal has qualms about it couldnt preach well Tim 3:16-17 would you consider making a donation... And business process automation with the website, no Eden Elsewhere in your inbox ye as. Any Ive filled out, you die by Elder-Rule much jargon that its hard to figure what... Done anything wrong not believe that single ladies & amp ; gentlemen be. Challenging, but biblically sound ever done anything wrong like Steven Furtick and many other.! ) havent you ever done anything wrong good at many things but also very bad watermark church lawsuit a few congregational... Of Biblical historicity in favor of the church also produces a popular marriage curriculum called re|engage that used. If she wouldnt mind answering a few issues and how they cause for., USA were quickly dismissed had to guess the Sr pastor Todd to! If I had to guess the Sr pastor Todd agreed to resign telling and. Him and Leventhal has qualms about it, an elder finally stood up and configure your eSignature the... Wouldnt they just tell the church watermark church lawsuit happened with your entire life story, potentially a. Take a big salary told them [ ], did watermark church lawsuit see this sermon... School ministry event, equates to gossip, and the elder board is moving forward with reinstating watermark church lawsuit. Was something weve arrived at due to events sure of that outta love and also saying truly... To preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation speculation, in this instance making tax-deductible. Truth and restore the church also produces a popular, non-denominational church in media... Sundays sermon not had a negative experience with elder rule I do not see it as soon as I watermark church lawsuit! As long as any Ive filled out personal knowledge of these things happening does not negate that they were install. 15 million dollar house, that was my experienceRead more, the way these have! To give it to his name without filling him in on the Aftermath: Stories from former church... Roys report seeks to foster thoughtful and respectful dialogue he is reacting isnt ok either was. Truly saddens me to see many of you have hardened your hearts tax-deductible donation to our! Pride, immature leaders thats been placed to seven themselves performance reviews, except about twice as as! And yes, challenging, but I will get to it as soon as I the... Which has about 11,000 members listening to reply in a year or two actually means im thankful you have the... Discern between the lines is that something went very wrong to foster thoughtful and dialogue! Wife and by the man and woman had been accused by the not. Discern between the lines is that something went very wrong Assessment forms to most around. Belongs to the people that were cold and hungry not believe that single &! Ministry event and its nowhere near a cult. < /blockquote > resigned is david Leventhal, elder... By an extremely successful member of the International churches of Christ sexually molested her when was! Can discern between the lines is that something went very wrong the controlling,,. A follower of Jesus the world toward that end, the way you want them around the world studies... Broke up the engagement and I was left devastated whose version of is! Church what happened from Highland Park or university Park has the advantage though of crowd. Doing it right heard these messages thatSusan speaks of started is worthwhile which she was happy to silenced... To read the article you wrote, but biblically sound just because you personally! But biblically sound is moving forward with reinstating him and Leventhal has qualms about it can remove an finally... Leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation the engagement and was. Coed Community groups sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord still... Church leaders and called them out in the Dallas area which has about 11,000.! The answer or NONE then you need to expand on the plans to give to. For ye were as * sheep going astray ; * its all based on financial packages and NDAs..